3 points

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BLUNTrauma
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3 points

Post by BLUNTrauma » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:09 pm

I don't see too much discussion here, recent anyway, about holy priest spec lines. I had a nice conversation with some guild members after running a ToC 10 earlier this week, and part of that discussion touched on the serendipity talent.

Serendipity basically gives your prayer of healing spell haste buff after casting a total of 3 flash heals or binding heals (or some combination thereof). I've chosen not to spec into this talent for the following reasons.

1. The haste buff, while nice, doesn't fix the problem with PoH, primarily that by the time the cast is finished some people in the party have already been healed to full. In a raid situation, particularly raiding in LB where we have a lot of good healers, at least 2 of the 5 people in your target party are going to get healed out from under your PoH. Even with the extra haste this is still true. Unless there is evenly dispersed raid-wide damage that can be anticipated (e.g. ignis, kologarn, uh ... some third fight) some of the healing given by PoH is going to be wasted. For example, after ignis hits his flame jets I'll PoH the heal group, knowing full well that at least two of those heals will get sniped before it completes, then hit a circle of healing, then hit another group with PoH. The second PoH is likely to hit all 5 party members for the full amount of the heal, extra haste or no extra haste.

2. Mana leakage. In order to keep the necessary 3 stacks of serendipity up you have to cast flash heals or binding heals. As is often the case with these kinds of talents healing to get and maintain those stacks sometimes, often, means healing people who don't need it. This translates to wasted mana and inefficient healing overall.

3. Three talent points = not worth it. I'd much rather put those three points saved from dipping all the way into serendipity in other talents. I like having empowered renew, blessed resilience, and holy concentration maxed out. With serendipity I'd have to make huge sacrifices, either losing one of those talents entirely or reducing the effectiveness of two or more. In the case of empowered renew, can't do it. 15% increase in effectiveness is huge, not to mention that it hits for a 2k instant heal before it even starts ticking. Blessed resilience increases overall healing effectiveness by 3% ... 3%!!! I just can't give up 3% on all of my heals. Holy concentration gives me more mp5 when it procs, and any talent that allows mana to regen faster is totally worth it in my book, because you just can't have enough mana. In the end, I can't justify trading any of these talents, or cutting their effectiveness, for a haste buff on one spell, especially considering that the end result, in terms of who gets healed by the spell, often remains the same.

When it comes to theorycraft, to each his, or her, own I say. For Bluntrauma, I've stacked spell power (2798 with inner fire up). With raid buffs and the proper totem down, I'm easily over 3k. When my lightweave embroidery procs, that goes upwards of 3200, which is not too shabby for a holy priest. For me, it doesn't make sense to take serendipity as it's basically a 3 talent point haste buff for one spell. I understand that some priests love haste, and stack as much as possible, but I have my reasons for not going that route. When I've had crazy high haste I've still been undercut by a lot of heals. If there are shamans or druids, with chain heals and hots respectively, my PoH is still going to hit the same number of people in a party. About 3 out of 5. As blunt is now, his flash heal is over 5k, crits between 9 and 10, which is huge for holy priests. The utility of instant cast spells; CoH, PoM, Nova, Empowered Renew etc., make having higher spell power more valuable than ever ... for me. A fight that illustrates this benefit is healing the Thorim arena group. With the haste debuff, casting any non-instant cast spell is just a waste of time. But I can still keep the group up using only Nova, CoH, PoM, and Empowered renew. As a holy priest that section of the fight is super easy, basically because of the way our class is designed. Again I'm not saying there's anything wrong with speccing into serendipity, I just don't see the justification for myself, based on firsthand observations.

If anyone would like to expand on this discussion, explaining why you like serendipity, why you agree disagree with me, or just offer any other ideas on theorycrafting, I'd love to hear from you. Cheers~!
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Re: 3 points

Post by hiroshima » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:24 pm

after lvling as disc and hitting 80, i was disappointed with my rankings on heal meters in naxx so i went holy. when i got to serendipity i was like o shit only 3 points? NEEED

i think specing for serendipity would be most effective with surge of light spec'd since u can stack faster and get free instant flash which adds to ur buffs and the free flash could be used to keep ur buffs up without as much mana leakage if u were worried about it. the talent would work quite well off of each other if u think about it, when ur PoH goes off, at least 1 in 5 should crit, ur have 50% chance to get a free flash, u throw ur instant flash, binding, flash, and ur at 3 again. amg it was 1 gcd and 2 of ur fastest timed cast heals and u can throw a greater that's almost as fast as ur flashes. the problem with this is finding the talent points to spare, i think 13 points in disc is mana regen is mandatory, leaving 58 points for holy to work with. here's a link to my tree
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-tale ... ster+Brood

the only talents i consider optional are body and soul, healing prayers, test of faith and surge of light. i am considering dropping ToF altogether to get the other point of healing prayers and surge of light to test the difference.

these r my cast times and avg heals, self buffed, no procs besides occasional lightweave
my base heals avg. heal/avg.crit with no stacks/1stack/2stacks/3stacks
flash/binding 5k/7.2k - 1.41s/1.41s/1.41s/1.41s
greater 10k/15.1k - 2.36s/2.07s/1.79s/1.51s
PoH 4.3k/6.1k - 2.83s/2.49s/2.15s/1.81s

in the end, i do think serendipity will hurt mana conservation but increases heals/second enough to be worth it and wud be better for the more healing intensive fights like h toc but still testing specs. lemme know wut u think.

blessed resil is straight pvp, 3% heals meh, priest getting crit? not likely in pve and ur dead if it happens.

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Re: 3 points

Post by BLUNTrauma » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:22 am

Thanks for the reply, this is just the kind of discussion I was looking for. I see that you've left desperate prayer, surge of light, inspiration, and blessed resilience out of your spec. Let me explain why I've chosen to spec those 4 talents.

Desperate Prayer - is exactly what it sounds like. Consumes a ton of mana, but in most situations will heal you back to full if you're at, or just below, 50% health. As someone who is primarily assigned to raid heals, a spell like this is super useful. I believe that good healers look after themselves, and having desperate prayer on my bar in those situations where I'd be two shotted without it makes it invaluable ... to me. It's a 1 point talent/spell, which is expensive if you consider that it's used infrequently, but it's really one more "oh shit button" for me to use when the situation demands it.

Inspiration - Is pretty self explanatory. It's a passive spell that mitigates damage without any extra thought on my part. Can't pass it up.

Surge of Light - As you discussed yourself, when specced into it has a 50% chance of giving you a free flash heal. Using CoH pretty much guarantees you one of these, and as such it's a huge mana saver over time. Not to mention a super fast heal.

Blessed Resilience - May be viewed, by some, as a pvp talent, I really don't see it that way. First, since it's so deep into the holy tree it requires you to spend a minimum of 33 points in Holy, leaving you only 38 points to spend in the discipline tree. The resulting spec would forgo the most powerful talents of the disc tree, leaving you with a crippled, though potentially viable, pvp spec. Since I don't consider holy to be a viable pvp spec, in a pvp situation a strong disc spec with a few points dropped into holy would be much more valuable.

For me this talent isn't that great, but it does have it's use. A 3% buff on every healing spell, though small, adds up over time. On a 5k flash heal that's only an extra 150 to your heal, but on 10 flash heals that's an extra 1500 ... Over the course of a fight that 3% makes a difference. It's not a huge bonus, but any talent that directly increases my heals is worth it for me. Fundamentally I do agree that this is, by design, a pvp talent. But blizzard, being blizzard, has placed it too far down in the holy tree to make it very useful for a pvp spec.

My reasoning behind ignoring the body and soul and serendipity talents remains the same. Body and soul is useful for the 50% chance to remove diseases, but not for much else ... again IMO. Serendipity is a nice idea, but not really necessary. In most cases a priest can anticipate when raid-wide damage is going out so in that situation, it's easy to time your PoH to hit just after the raid receives damage. In this situation, haste isn't really a factor.

Alright well that's it for a lengthy response. Thanks for the input hiro. Cheers~!
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Re: 3 points

Post by Malexanica » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:05 pm

Hey Blunt it was myself you had that dicussion with after TOC. I really want to reply to this and will as soon as I get home and have a few minutes.
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