War Has Changed, New DW Specs. *Updated*

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Caen
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War Has Changed, New DW Specs. *Updated*

Post by Caen » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:42 pm

Lot of changes in this patch, Frost Strike glyph, IT sigil, KM operating differently, some other talent changes.

I will be doing a good bit of testing the next couple days or even weeks on some of the following specs, and invite you goofs to try the same:

These are taken from EJ on theorycrafting new specs:

So to summarize we have got:
Builds that get ebon plaguebringer:
10/10/51 Icy Touch spam with Bladed Armor
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn ... 2100050600

0/20/51 Icy Touch spam with Killing Machine
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn ... 2100050600

Builds that get Howling Blast (also bring 20% melee haste buff):
10/31/30 Howling Blast with Bladed Armor
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn ... 2100050600

0/32/39 (2 pts free) Howling Blast with Bone Armor
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn ... 2100050600

0/44/27 Frost Strike
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn ... 2100050600

Builds will vary by a few points depending on personal preference and raid group. There is also the fast/fast vs slow/fast question and perhaps blood vs. unholy (if you have a dense rotation). That is a lot of testing...

-

You'll notice the first build does not have nerves of steel but utilizes DW still, this is because it places so much emphasis on IT cause it will hit like a truck. A couple people have stated they have had really good results with it but haven't concluded if fast or slow weapons or better.

And with the rest of the builds we're not too sure how badly KM was affected with fast/fast or if slow/fast pulled ahead, or if slow/slow is even optional.

I challenge you to pick a spec and test it out thoroughly, it may cost a good bit of money for respecs/glyph changes or even buying weapons to parse numbers. But this is where we have to up our game and adapt, so let's get on it.

Try new specs, try different presences and glyphs.

We'll discuss this actively I'd guess for the next coming days.
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Re: War Has Changed, New DW Specs. *Updated*

Post by Kinos » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:51 pm

I've been thinking of playing a DK more and looking at specs

2h frost looks pretty interesting with the changes.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn ... 2110050604

was what looked good to me with emphasis on icy touch(glyphed) generating RP for frost strikes.

When the oblit bug is fixed I would probably test out swapping in the oblit sigil and glyph as well as moving 2 points into dirge (possibly 1 from garg if frost strike beats nerfed garg in dmg per RP) and use oblit mainly except for rime procs



http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn ... 1310050604

may be a better spec going the oblit route

either way I'm just theorycrafting and actually need to start leveling my DK :P

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Re: War Has Changed, New DW Specs. *Updated*

Post by Caen » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:09 am

Ive done considerably more testing since yesterday, and there's just tons and tons of questions all over the place, especially with EJ.

EJ is proving to be less and less effective over time and have found much better results by my own testing. Don't get me wrong, there are still some very good posts there, but it is largely overshadowed with people who cannot follow logic at all and just post to be "What spec do I need to cookie cut now?".

I've tested a couple diff specs last night, this morning and in raid on Tuesday. The raiding 2H Blood build is pretty much nil from the unbelievable FPS issues I was having all night in Maly and all of Naxx. It was hilariously fun and I'd recommend trying it for PvP but raids it seems a bit too tight in terms of rotation, and Obl bug isnt helping it.

But to stay on topic of DW [Kinda.]

0/44/27 is pretty much obsolete for DW, using a 2H will yield much better results, however, GoG doesn't seem to be completely working with what it says it does, least not for HB. I don't see nearly an impact that I calculate with some of the HBs I do. In comparison from 0/32/39, 0/44/27 will have bigger HBs, but not THAT much bigger. GoG should be quite noticable but it isn't.

However, that said, Having a 2H here makes Frost Strike much more deadly. I don't think DW can compete with it this far in the tree.

Oh, and I think unbreakable armor is severely underrated. 10% STR every min for 20s, think about it. With Blood tap you can get this up in a pinch right away, stack Kings, and Crusader and suddenly your a Beastmaster.

STR is ridiculous when you stack it, like, really, really ridiculous.
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Re: War Has Changed, New DW Specs. *Updated*

Post by Klysmo » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:23 pm

Ok so you're saying 0/44/27 may be better off for 2H. I'm willing to give that a shot even though I'm an UH junkie. :) Obviously the 3 pts. in Nerves of Cold Steel can be reallocated for 2H purposes. I was thinking Annihilation, but u said something about an Obl bug? I don't know anything about that atm. Other than that, GoG is a well designed talent but not when our main focus is stacking Str rather than crit/str or straight crit. I think those 2 points would almost benefit more in Tundra Stalker. That's 4% increased damage from ALL of your sources to any target with Frost Fever not to mention 2 exp which isn't bad for PVE. I assume this affects Gargoyle damage as well as our other rune attacks. I'll do some testing with that when I get a chance, although my DPS gear still needs some work. I'm hit capped again though and regemmed for as much Str as I could squeeze in. Saving prismatic JC gems for upgrades though since I'm not DPS that often.

Where's that Blood spec you used the other night? I doubt I'll drop UH for pvp but I always dip into Blood up to Mark of Blood and Imp Rune Tap for arena. It may be a more viable raid spec though depending on gear. For me atleast.
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Re: War Has Changed, New DW Specs. *Updated*

Post by Caen » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:35 pm

I'm not even sure if you should be using Obl with 2H Frost 0/44/27. Obl is not generating RP at all I think, so your better off with using HB. HB also ignores armor.

Reason for having 27 in UH is for Garg and Ghoul. Garg isn't what it used to be but its still really good for the point, and ghoul is gaining 20% more str [and stam I think as well] with the glyph this patch.

I'll need to test this more for 2H Frost, but so far people have reported it being pretty darn nice.
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Re: War Has Changed, New DW Specs. *Updated*

Post by Kinos » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:27 pm

The bug I mentioned was OB not generating the 15 RP it should be. Once it's fixed I thought it may be worth trying out in 0/44/27 with possibly picking up dirge for up to 35 RP generated per OB with 4 pc bonus. OB also has alot more crit from talents and I don't think glyphed OB with sigl of is that far off HB on a fully debuffed mob. I haven't seen numbers but the extra Frost Strikes could possibly put it ahead.

Of course the second build I posted favors OB alot more and might be worth a try once OB starts generating the proper RP.

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Re: War Has Changed, New DW Specs. *Updated*

Post by Caen » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:22 am

Kinos wrote:The bug I mentioned was OB not generating the 15 RP it should be. Once it's fixed I thought it may be worth trying out in 0/44/27 with possibly picking up dirge for up to 35 RP generated per OB with 4 pc bonus. OB also has alot more crit from talents and I don't think glyphed OB with sigl of is that far off HB on a fully debuffed mob. I haven't seen numbers but the extra Frost Strikes could possibly put it ahead.

Of course the second build I posted favors OB alot more and might be worth a try once OB starts generating the proper RP.
There's a couple of problems that I'm seeing with this 0/44/27 build. The Obl talents your probably looking for are in Blood [First tier, Subversion], Annihilation helps Obl and FS, which in turn helps 2H pull a bit ahead.

But again, I think something is lost in translation here for effectiveness. Obl does good damage with all its talents together, however its mitigated by armor and costs 2 runes. You need talents in 3 separate trees to really make it shine, and Blood is its best pick if your going deep.

You'll have to make choices like not going deep into UH [for ghoul or Garg, or +5% STR and extra ghoul talents.] and also justifying points in other places [Howling Blast? You wont be using it since Obl takes the same runes and still has a CD, you also wont have impurity if you go blood] Blood of the north for 5 points gives a slight edge over DRM, but costs 2 more points, costly points this far down.

With those 2 points you could obtain 2H spec, Bladed armor, epidemic perhaps, dark conviction, to name a few.

In the end it seems like your making too many sacrifices with placing points just for Obl in comparison to things to amp HB.

2c there.
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Re: War Has Changed, New DW Specs. *Updated*

Post by Kinos » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:01 pm

I justify using OB because of the extra RP your getting over HB and the C/D on it, you can still do HB using rime. I'm still not familiar on all the rotations and I know using more icy touch over OB may be better but you risk using your KM procs on IT instead of frost strikes/HB, also more icy touches are more GCD's which makes it harder to get your frost strikes in.

I already stated the 21/50/0 build I linked suited OB better, but was wondering how it would do in 0/44/27.

Also I think OB should now be generating proper RP.

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